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Old 12-05-2009, 11:44 AM   #1
davesaturn
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Default Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

NOTE: This thread started at http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=147742

I decided to open a new thread because I have specific data.

I purchased an Actron CP9180. The data posted is from that device.

Car went into low power mode at stop light. It happened again today after getting off the interstate. The problem seems to happen at stop lights, although I believe it would happen at stop signs also :*)

This morning's event happened immediatly after I gunned the accelerator to pass in front of another car to make a right turn. The problem started when the engine was slowed. It was like it dropped below standard idle and was on the verge of dying.




The car drives ok again after the engine is off for approx 5 minutes. The data posted in the attached PDF files comes from the event this morning. The Data recording posted was started after the car started to shake.

P1516 is listed as Manufacturer Specific. Freeze frame data is posted.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SaturnPost.jpg (38.1 KB, 11 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Diag Monitor Tests and Recording Playback.pdf (43.6 KB, 34 views)
File Type: pdf DTCs and Freeze Frames.pdf (16.4 KB, 21 views)
File Type: pdf Vehicle Info.pdf (8.4 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by davesaturn; 12-05-2009 at 11:57 AM..

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Old 12-05-2009, 01:06 PM   #2
2006 ion2
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

your TB and pedal are not doing their jobs. replace them both. P1516 is the Throttle Actuator Control

...
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006 ion2 View Post
your TB and pedal are not doing their jobs. replace them both. P1516 is the Throttle Actuator Control

thanks for the help

excuse my stupid but: what is a TB? Throttle B____? Body?
is the Pedal the accelerator pedal that I step on to make the car go fast?

I just replaced the air filter. could there be a connection?

thx again

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Old 12-05-2009, 01:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

yes, yes, no.

...
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006 ion2 View Post
yes, yes, no.
Groovy.

I found plenty of web sites that describe cleaning the TB. I may try that first. I can Always spend more money. It's hard to unspend it.

My engine compartment has been in need of a cleaning for a while anyway.

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Old 12-05-2009, 02:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

use sensor cleaner or alcohol. the errors mean the motor and/or control circuitry inside are the problem, not the throttle body being dirty

...
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaturn View Post
Groovy.

I found plenty of web sites that describe cleaning the TB. I may try that first. I can Always spend more money. It's hard to unspend it.

My engine compartment has been in need of a cleaning for a while anyway.
only soo many cleanings...then they have to be cleaned monthly...i have kn ow idea why.


buy new and be done with it

...
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

DTCs

P2101 Mod $00
Throttle Actuator
Cntrl Motor Ckt Rng
Perform


P1516 Mod $00
<ENHANCED>
Manufacturer
Specific DTC.
See Service Manual..........DTC P1516 Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) Module Throttle Actuator Position Performance
Global OBDII
Non OBDCodes

Pending DTCs

P0121 Mod $00
<PENDING>
Throttle/Pedal
Position Sens A Ckt

Rng/Perform

P2101 Mod $00
<PENDING>
Throttle Actuator
Cntrl Motor Ckt Rng
Perform


P1516 Mod $00
<ENHANCED>
<PENDING>
Manufacturer
Specific DTC.
See Service Manual

Loose/corroded wiring connections at the throttle actuator? Dirty throttle? Never cleaning the throttle body may reveal crud build-up from many miles of driving no air filter will catch. It might help to observe the throttle actuator control (TAC) by having someone slowly press the pedal down while you watch the throttle follow pedal movement; throttle-by-wire/drive-by-wire using electronics, eliminating a throttle cable. My guess is a mismatch in communications between the pedal and throttle body, as seen by the ecm. This can be expensive, guessing without better troubleshooting equipment and experience. A sticking throttle, whether cable or servo motor driven, still needs some TLC sometimes with solvent cleaning.

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Old 12-06-2009, 08:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

I'm going with FDFryer & the OP on this one, clean the throttle body and check for bad connection at the pedal throttle body. It may be something that simple, if that doesn't fix it, replace both parts as a pair. We seen this issue on the Envoy/Trailblazers with the 4.2L enough times in the past, both local GM dealers have always told us to replace them together, it won't be not cheap. I suspect in reality your issue is a bad pedal assembly, notice on your freeze frame data that the Throttle Commanded data was at the same spot/amount each time it the issue occured and recorded the data. Try cleaning the rheostat in the assembly(if you can get to it) and see if your issue goes away.

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Last edited by Maritime Storm; 12-06-2009 at 08:20 AM..

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Old 12-06-2009, 10:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime Storm View Post
... it won't be not cheap....
do you work for the government? :*)


thx

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Old 12-07-2009, 07:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

dude get some gas. i never let my car get that low.

...
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowion06 View Post
dude get some gas. i never let my car get that low.

Thanks Mom. Can I borrow a $50??

lol

:*)

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Old 12-07-2009, 11:54 AM   #13
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Here is another data capture. I'll admit that I'm playing with my new scanner, but I'm curious to see if it is useful. I don't have the experience to analyze it properly, but I'm willing to learn ("able" is the question)

This is a Actron CP9180 scanner. I'm wondering if the next higher model would give me something real to trade up for beside a "blow mold case" (wii). IOW: Is there more data available that can be had without spending a lot more money? I spent $180 for this scanner.

The software for this tool is a little weak, but at least it allows me to downlaod the data to the computer.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 20091206-1500-3.pdf (56.9 KB, 26 views)

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Old 12-07-2009, 12:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

I can tell you it's about 20 degrees there, and I can see you filled up your tank to about half, lol. all I can see it tells is what the TPS reads, my scangauge tells me the same thing. that isn't useful by itself.

...
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Old 12-09-2009, 06:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Regarding your accel. pedal, I have an 05 ion 2 and the car is jumpy as hell from idle to about 1800 rpm. I have driven manual trans vehicles and I thought I was 12 again! I removed the accel pedal and noticed it is riveted together. These rivets would need to be removed to clean (I did not bother since I needed the car the next day) but I did put it in the vise, hooked up an ohm meter (analog) to each of the two rheostat terminals (get a wire diag) and slowly pushed on the pedal. I immediately noticed that one rheostat moved the needle very uniformly while the other did not move the needle until the pedal travelled almost a half an inch whereupon the needle jumped significantly? I am just waiting on my new pedal to come in and I will replace it and let you know.

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Old 12-09-2009, 07:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjmg View Post
Regarding your accel. pedal, I have an 05 ion 2 and the car is jumpy as hell from idle to about 1800 rpm. I have driven manual trans vehicles and I thought I was 12 again! I removed the accel pedal and noticed it is riveted together. These rivets would need to be removed to clean (I did not bother since I needed the car the next day) but I did put it in the vise, hooked up an ohm meter (analog) to each of the two rheostat terminals (get a wire diag) and slowly pushed on the pedal. I immediately noticed that one rheostat moved the needle very uniformly while the other did not move the needle until the pedal travelled almost a half an inch whereupon the needle jumped significantly? I am just waiting on my new pedal to come in and I will replace it and let you know.
Great info, thanks!

FWIW: we just had a blizzard hit us and I was dreading travel. However, the Check engine light went off two days ago and problem hasn't happened again. It's also colder. Tonight is supposed to be 10 below naught.

The floor is a bit wet from snow tracked into the car. I wonder if that is making a diff?

BTW: How much was the accelerator pedal?

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Old 12-14-2009, 03:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Followup:

in my last post, I mentioned the fact that the problem went away as my carpet got wetter from the snow fall.

a few days later, I went on a 3 hour drive as temps were below 10. 1.5 hours into the drive my feet got cold, so I directed the heat to my feet. approx 15 minutes later, my feet got super hot and the problem came back as I was reaching to turn off the heat.

Is it rational that the heater dried up the floor area enough that the accelerator pedal regenerated the problem? OR perhaps the heat increated the resistence of the accelerator pedal?

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Old 12-14-2009, 05:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

I'm not exactly sure the specifics of the construction of the pedal assembly, but it does point a big, red, flashing arrow to the pedal. IMO water nor temp should affect the TBW pedals, mine have always worked flawlessly regardless of low or high extreme temps (it's seen both), humidity, or even being doused in water by snow melting off my boot.

...
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

I picked up the pedal assy' over the holidays (about 75 bucks) and after removing the old unit, compared ohm-meter readings. The new pedal has 18% (approx 500 ohms on an old analog meter) less ohms' than the old pedal. I was actually a little upset since I did not think that would make a difference (not to mention that the dealer suggested the OBD is very sensitive and would show a CEL for any little discrepency), but then I realized that the entire sweep from idle to WOT is only about 850 ohms. So after replacement, the 05 ION now accelerates smoothly from 1st gear!!!

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Old 01-05-2010, 01:01 AM   #20
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Default Re: Codes P0121, P2101, P1516

Thanks for the update does it now seem smooth at all speeds and all gears after getting a few miles on the new peddle?

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