SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-25-2008, 01:30 PM   #1
tkeahi
Junior Member
tkeahi is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 16

1997 SL2
Default 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

I bought this 1998 SL1 from a person who said "it doesn't start and my friend the mechanic says it needs a new computer." I'm trying to do my own homework but need help figuring out what else I should be looking at before I blame the computer.

Here's where I am:
-The car cranks but does not start.
-No codes from the computer
There is fuel pressure at the fuel rail but when I pull the plugs after cranking the car they are dry.
-There is no spark at the coils (as tested by the 'pull the plug wires off and see if spark jumps towers' test)
-There is power to the coils (thanks for the youtube videos, richpin!)
-The CPS has been replaced and tests good for output (again, using the guidance in richpin's video)

Any other things I should be looking at to solve this mystery? Thanks!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tkeahi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tkeahi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tkeahi is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 11-25-2008, 01:34 PM   #2
Cheyne
Senior Member
Cheyne will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,123

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Have you checked for corrosion at the coils?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Cheyne's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Cheyne reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Cheyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 01:51 PM   #3
Cheyne
Senior Member
Cheyne will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,123

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Also, what about the condition of the wiring to the cps?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Cheyne's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Cheyne reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Cheyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 02:09 PM   #4
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant future
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,717
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Checked for a blown PCM fuse?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 02:12 PM   #5
Cheyne
Senior Member
Cheyne will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,123

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Checked for a blown PCM fuse?
Yep. Much better place to start. Can't believe I missed that one.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Cheyne's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Cheyne reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Cheyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 02:27 PM   #6
tkeahi
Junior Member
tkeahi is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 16

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Checked for a blown PCM fuse?
PCM fuse(s) are good. IGN fuses are good as well.

Last edited by tkeahi; 11-25-2008 at 02:37 PM..

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tkeahi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tkeahi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tkeahi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 02:36 PM   #7
tkeahi
Junior Member
tkeahi is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 16

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheyne View Post
Also, what about the condition of the wiring to the cps?
Thanks for the idea. I will jack it up and take a look today. If the computer were not getting the CPS signal for some reason (say wiring issues, for example) would the computer throw a code?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tkeahi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tkeahi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tkeahi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 02:38 PM   #8
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,540
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

No, and a lack of CPS signal will kill the fuel injection, and spark. The starter will run and crank though.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 02:38 PM   #9
Cheyne
Senior Member
Cheyne will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,123

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Perhaps not. There was no code when my cps went out.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Cheyne's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Cheyne reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Cheyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 02:39 PM   #10
tkeahi
Junior Member
tkeahi is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 16

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
No, and a lack of CPS signal will kill the fuel injection, and spark. The starter will run and crank though.
Is there any way to check that the CPS signal is getting to the computer?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tkeahi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tkeahi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tkeahi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 03:06 PM   #11
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,540
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

If you have checked for spark at the coil towers by cranking over the engine then the next step is to replace the CPS. You could check its resistance but since its such a pain to get at just put in a new one. Be sure the new one is all the way in. the bolt will not pull it in completely.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 04:00 PM   #12
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant futurefdryer has a brilliant future
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 29,717
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeahi View Post
Is there any way to check that the CPS signal is getting to the computer?
Being that you're on an island and have to depend on doing it yourself, look over the wiring in general and locate the PCM. The cps wiring has to wind up connecting to the PCM and the PCM must be plugged in and look like its never been removed. In other words no one has tampered with it or been at it trying something. Everything should look normal and not out of place for a 10yr old car. The cps wiring will disappear into the main harness and not look out of place either unless you can actually find broken wiring. You'll need a wiring diagram to trace where the signals wind up in the PCM.

There's also the possibility of the ignition module fault that also kills the spark. Have a known good ignition module to swap?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2008, 06:30 PM   #13
Cheyne
Senior Member
Cheyne will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,123

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Have you hooked it up to a scanner? Checked the ground and power leads to the pcm?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Cheyne's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Cheyne reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Cheyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 12:58 AM   #14
rc1488
Master Member
rc1488 has a spectacular aura aboutrc1488 has a spectacular aura about
 
rc1488's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Carmel, NY
Posts: 5,658
 

1997 SL2
1995 SC2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Re install you CPS. If it is not seated correctly ( even 1mm pulled out) it will not work right. It MUST be pushed in fully. One member went through...3? CPS's and found out...he didnt push it in all the way each time. Do not count on the bolt to push it in.

...
Current: 95 SC2 Man 97 SL2 Auto 98 SL1 Auto 01 SL1 Man 02 SL1 Man
Past: 94 SL2 Man 95 SL2 Man 95 SL2 Man 96 SL2 Auto 97 SL2 Man 98 SL2 Auto 99 SL2 Auto
2010 SCCA Mohud Street Championship-2nd Place

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rc1488's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rc1488 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rc1488 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 01:10 PM   #15
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,540
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

The bolt will definitely not pull it in but it will break it. If you need to see what you are doing remove the passengers side wheel and splash shields.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2008, 05:37 PM   #16
tkeahi
Junior Member
tkeahi is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 16

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by rc1488 View Post
Re install you CPS. If it is not seated correctly ( even 1mm pulled out) it will not work right. It MUST be pushed in fully. One member went through...3? CPS's and found out...he didnt push it in all the way each time. Do not count on the bolt to push it in.
The CPS was the first thing I replaced and I did test it for output with a voltmeter but I will doublecheck to make sure it is pushed in fully.

Thanks for the advice guys...keep the suggestions coming, I am going to work on it today and will keep you posted.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tkeahi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tkeahi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tkeahi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2008, 06:04 PM   #17
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant futureOldNuc has a brilliant future
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 51,540
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Unless you have an eye ball on the end of your finger you need a mirror to see if its all the way down in the block.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2008, 06:59 PM   #18
tkeahi
Junior Member
tkeahi is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 16

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: SOLVED

Thanks to all...the car is now FIXED!

I replaced the CPS with a known good CPS out of another car and it starts and runs perfectly. The CPS that was in there before was brand new and fully seated but must have been bad from the store. Thanks to everyone who helped keep me focused on the CPS.

Aloha

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to tkeahi's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help tkeahi reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
tkeahi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2008, 07:02 PM   #19
Cheyne
Senior Member
Cheyne will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,123

1997 SL2
Default Re: 1998 SL1 No Start: No Fuel, No Spark, big Problem

Another Saturn back on the road where it belongs.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Cheyne's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Cheyne reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Cheyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No Start, 93 SC2 (Got spark and fuel) SC2 93 S-Series Tech 11 10-31-2009 08:56 AM
1998 SL1 Won't Start! JRROGERS S-Series Tech 4 02-20-2008 03:08 PM
1998 SL1 won't start cold HDR S-Series Tech 8 02-14-2008 12:11 PM
No spark, got fuel pressure, new cps, but still no start! delturcious S-Series Tech 41 09-13-2006 09:16 PM
has spark, air and fuel but wont start kre8ive_kustomz S-Series Tech 28 06-23-2006 10:06 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.