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Old 08-22-2017, 10:05 PM   #21
OldNuc
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Drum Brake Adjuster Kit Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuetip View Post
When I get the chance I'll upload some pics. The parking brake cable springs on both sides are very rusty and broke in half (in roughly the same spots). I was able to slide the broken pieces over the cables and install the adjuster levers without issue. Could this be the cause of my problem?

For reference, it's number 12 on the diagram.

If that spring (12) is shot the parking brake cable will not return to the rest/release position. This causes all kinds of grief with initial adjustment. Not sure if there is a replacement in the complete hardware kit or not but a trip to the JY should yield a couple of good ones.

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Old 08-23-2017, 06:39 PM   #22
cuetip
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1997 SW1
Default Re: Drum Brake Adjuster Kit Question

It appears that using the parking brake does not cause the brakes to go out of adjustment. I'm not sure what I experienced yesterday. Pedal feel definitely seems inconsistent though. Using the parking brake yesterday did seem to firm up the pedal some. I forgot to mention that both wheel cylinders have wetness around one of their piston seals. Fortunately the brake fluid didn't make it past the dust boots.

The leaky wheel cylinders and the broken parking brake cable springs are probably the cause of my problems. Since I don't have time to do the wheel cylinders myself, I'm going to have a shop do it. The parking brake cable springs are not available new anywhere that I can find so I'll have to get them from a junk yard.

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Old 10-20-2017, 11:21 AM   #23
cuetip
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1997 SW1
Default Re: Drum Brake Adjuster Kit Question

It's been a while but I have an update. A few weeks ago I overhauled the drum brakes, swapping the parking brake cables, backing plates, wheel hub assemblies, wheel cylinders, and all the rest of the hardware. Since my car lived in NY for most of her life, most of the drum brake hardware was badly rusted. Now that I live in the Pacific Northwest, I can find rust free parts in the junkyard. I used junkyard backing plates, parking brake cables, and parking brake springs. After cleaning them up, they looked brand new.

Anyway, the problem with the drums going out of adjustment persists. Using the parking brake does indeed cause increased pedal travel. I have to adjust the star wheels by hand to restore the pedal height each time I use the parking brake. I verified that everything is installed correctly, according to the FSM. I made extra sure that the adjusters were on the correct sides and that the adjuster levers were engaging the star wheels. I also followed the FSM parking brake adjustment procedure.

Could the master cylinder have an internal leak? My theory is that using the parking brake resets the adjusters to the proper position. However, because there is an internal leak, it's preventing the wheel cylinders from fully extending out each time the pedal is pressed. Could this be possible?

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Old 10-20-2017, 11:42 AM   #24
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Drum Brake Adjuster Kit Question

Not likely as there is a front and rear brake on each of the 2 MC sections.
Brake line (pipe) identification
#1 Left Front
#2 Right Rear
#3 Left Rear
#4 Right Front

Brake bleeding sequence.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen-2017-10-20_11-35-29.jpg (20.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Screen-2017-10-20_11-37-11.jpg (11.8 KB, 3 views)

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Old 10-20-2017, 02:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: Drum Brake Adjuster Kit Question

If using the parking brake un-adjusts the shoes, it seems the starwheels must be on the wrong side. Try swapping them from side-to-side.

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Old 10-20-2017, 09:06 PM   #26
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Drum Brake Adjuster Kit Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuetip View Post
....Anyway, the problem with the drums going out of adjustment persists. Using the parking brake does indeed cause increased pedal travel. I have to adjust the star wheels by hand to restore the pedal height each time I use the parking brake....Could the master cylinder have an internal leak? My theory is that using the parking brake resets the adjusters to the proper position. However, because there is an internal leak, it's preventing the wheel cylinders from fully extending out each time the pedal is pressed. Could this be possible?
How can a leak in the master cylinder disappear every time you readjust the rear brake drum star wheels? The fact that the star wheels need repeated resetting points to possibly the star wheels or the parking adjuster mechanism are on the wrong side - reversing, retracting when using the parking brake. Star wheels (when in correct positions with correct adjuster mechanisms) adjust to expand (jacking apart the brake shoes to effectively keep them close to the drum internal surfaces, reducing piston travel when braking. The master cylinder either leaks internally with worn piston seals or not. A leaking or damaged master cylinder will not be corrected by star wheel adjustments. Readjusting star wheels each time to restore brake pedal travel to minimum points away from the master cylinder.

Getting back to basics, left hand drive cars for America means the driver sits on the left side of the car (standing behind the car). Driver's side is left, passenger side is right. Star wheels are designed for 'RIGHT' and 'LEFT' side installation because one star wheel has reversed threads that cannot be used in the wrong side - either it works in reverse or doesn't work at all. If a star wheel were placed on the wrong side and still works, it simply retracts (shortens) its arms and allows brake shoes to move away from drum surface, increasing the distance the brake wheel cylinder needs to travel before shoes contact drums. This is purely a mechanical functional description and if you're not familiar with left/right threads, how star wheels are adjusted manually and then adjusted with the parking brake lever, retracting/extending star wheels in relation to drum brakes, you're likely to become confused and frustrated. At the least, knowledge and familiarity with mechanical principles is needed when working on drum brakes. Hydraulics are the same whether its drums or disc brakes.

If you have to, removing one drum and carefully examining and exercising the parking brake cable next to the drum should engage the star wheel and turn it so the arms spread (extend) to move the brake shoes closer the the drum. If you cannot determine what's wrong, there's no shame here and seeking help from a brake shop is needed. Do not let this go without a solution.

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