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Old 02-07-2020, 03:52 PM   #21
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

Can you post snapshots?

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Old 02-07-2020, 04:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

The Saturn brand has been dead for 12 years. The L series has been out of production for 16 years. New parts availability will be difficult at best. The L series was not a strong seller and the V6 Ellesmere engine was only ever installed in the 300 series, the early Catera and the early Vue.

Because of that market situation, there has never been a strong market for aftermarket suppliers to fill. Some parts will dry up completely and the pcv valve may be one of them. Certainly I am not seeing this part available anywhere. Those that 'offer it" show it as out of stock.

So that being the case, you have only two options; repair the part you have or get one off a junk yard vehicle. If you can't or won;t repair yours, then you have the JY as your only option.

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Old 02-07-2020, 04:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

I never said I was unwilling to rebuild the part. I said I didn't have the tools and parts required to do so.

I was able to pop the component open. I'll have to buy a tap set and some Viton Rubber or maybe spring steel to replace the Reed Valve. Pictures below.

The baked on oil sludge looks red, but it's really dark black. That is my camera settings making it look red. On the second photo, the reed valve should be covering the hole on the bottom. The Reed Valve was hardened, crusty bent up like a potato chip i.e. never closing, it snapped off with the lightest touch.
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Old 02-08-2020, 11:47 AM   #24
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

RJ. I said this on your other thread...Chill! I know the job you are doing is driving you crazy. I have a job on my Sub that I am doing today, that I gave up in frustration 2 weeks ago, so I feel your pain.

All I was pointing out is that given the very difficult parts supply situation, our repair options can become very limited. In some cases, it's JY part or be creative to try and repair. As far as I was able to find for you, only 1 person had had issues with that valve and I posted the link for you. But as I have never had to deal with your issue myself, I can offer suggestions or pointers. I have no direct knowledge.

It is always a pressure cooker situation when either the main car or the wife's car is down and it needs to be back on the road asap. My Ex would give me grief if I didn't work at the speed of light. Most times we all fumble along and the older the car, the more likely to have to deal with rusted bolts, components that disintegrate as you work your way to the culprit part. So I feel your frustration.

Maybe one option is to get a JY part that works, then that gives you time to work on a repair to the original one. If the JY part then goes bad, at least you have a good one.

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Old 02-09-2020, 02:09 AM   #25
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

My wife's saturn has been down for two weeks. She can't drive the manual tranny in my 96 Dodge Ram 2500 so I have to give her a ride everywhere and it is killing us in gas. Especially since my truck would not start on Friday. Got it running on Today and found out why it is hard starting. The crank position sensor is going bad. Another ***** of a repair and I can't bring the truck inside the garage because it won't fit.

The JY is an option, but I've found they charge just as much as a new part cost nowadays. Not worth it. I got materials to rebuild the Oil Separator and if is doesn't work... I'll know it pretty quickly. The reed valve material is unknown. I can tell you every reed valve is junk bar none. It is only 1 or 2 mils thick and hard as rock. I got a part number off of it, but I can't find it anywhere. The Reed Valve Part Number is 90 502 187 (at least that is what I think it says on the part). Surprisingly enough, it is just a flat of rubber with a push through dimple which holds it in place. No pop rivet or screw etc... I'm might use carbon fiber sandwiched between two rubber pieces (glued together), Or I can use some rubberized cork gasket material, but I'm not sure it can handle the stress. I haven't really decided what to use. I can either glue really thin rubber gasket material together, or rubber with cork, or cork alone or find a thicker rubber. I bought a pack of gasket making materials. I figure something should work.

Including our Saturn, this is the fifth Saturn/STX that has had this identical problem. All puking oil out the gaskets.

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Old 02-11-2020, 12:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

I was talking to a mechanic today about rebuilding the Oil Separator PCV module. He felt I should leave the broken Reed valve port empty and simply put a $5 PCV value in-line with the larger hose. What do you think about that?

The Cadillac STX has an in-line PCV valve in the connected hoses with the exact same Oil Separator PCV module.

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Old 02-11-2020, 01:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

You have nothing to lose with that option.

I have an 03 Suburban and that has the tiny empty tin can with the ball bearing in it as a pcv valve connected to 2 rubber in/out hoses. Due to reports from owners about excessive oil consumption, Chevy issued a bulletin to replace the pcv valve with another version. It was the same tiny empty tin can but without the ball bearing! Wow, that took a lot of working out!

We never used to have pcv systems until some whacko techno determined we needed them to save the world from emissions. I do believe that technology has moved on and many new cars don't have pcv systems anymore.

So again, you have nothing to lose.

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Old 02-13-2020, 04:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

I love the idea is simply adding a PCV valve to the large hose, but after thinking about it, it really wouldn't work as a real PCV valve. A real PCV valve vents from the valve cover gasket to the intake. This module, already does that as each port on the engine side (of the Oil Separator PCV Valve) where it connects is routed to different areas inside the engine. I've tried to figure out where each port goes, but was unsuccessful. The reed valve is supposed to meter the blow by from one port to the other. How that works is truly a mystery to me. So I found a 6" x 6" square of Viton Rubber on amazon for $17 and I'm going to use it as a Reed valve. I am also going to drill out the small hose entry to the Oil Separator as it is quickly plugs up completely. I'll send some photos when I get the "PCV" module rebuilt.

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Old 02-13-2020, 05:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
You have nothing to lose with that option.

I have an 03 Suburban and that has the tiny empty tin can with the ball bearing in it as a pcv valve connected to 2 rubber in/out hoses. Due to reports from owners about excessive oil consumption, Chevy issued a bulletin to replace the pcv valve with another version. It was the same tiny empty tin can but without the ball bearing! Wow, that took a lot of working out!

We never used to have pcv systems until some whacko techno determined we needed them to save the world from emissions. I do believe that technology has moved on and many new cars don't have pcv systems anymore.

So again, you have nothing to lose.
I don't know the whole story about PCVs. One reason was emissions and the other was to save the engine gaskets and seals from blow by. Modern engines have less blow by because they are built with tighter tolerances. One small crack in a piston or a bad valve and they act like ancient oil dopplers blowing out gaskets and puking oil out of every where. I am very concerned my wife's engine could have endured some damage when the timing belt tensioner failed and perhaps it caused some damage to a piston which in turn is why it is blowing oil out every gasket. I may only be able to plug the holes temporarily. I'll know more once I get the Viton Rubber to make the reed valve inside the Oil Separator PCV module. Hell, in order to change the valve cover gaskets... you have to take every apart minus the heads... maybe the heads are next! This is way deeper than I had ever intended to get with this car! What's my motivation? It sure beats make a new car payment of $500/month! If I have to keep rebuilding it... I will, but I would like to ask Murphy one question. Can you at least wait until Summer for the next break down! -11 degree tomorrow morning!

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Old 02-13-2020, 05:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

It may help ease any anxiety by checking compression. If you don't have one, AutoZone or Advance Auto have free compression gauge loaners. As you know, every piston has at least two or three piston rings, one or two upper compression rings and the lower one for wiping oil. Every ring has a gap, minimized when in the bore hole. With minimal gaps and rings gaps set 180 degrees from each other, minimum compression loss occurs. New engine compression are at least 185 psi with many around 200. No mileage is given when compression begins dropping as GMs policy is as long as the engine runs, even if oil consumption goes thru the roof, no repairs are made during warranty. Even if the oil burner fogs the immediate area.........

If your compression holds around 185 psi and doesn't deviate above 5% across all six cylinders, the engine is fine. There is the possibility of valve stem wear, oil getting past valve guides and entering combustion chambers to burn along with the fuel/air mixture. This can add to more blowby gases created from each cylinder.

Since the mid sixties when emissions control began, the positive crankcase ventilation system started with the small pcv valve feeding crankcase gases into the pcv valve. The intake manifold created vacuum so a hose feed these gases into the throttle body for reburning. Our L300's eliminated the pcv valve and channels gases thru the oil separator into the black plastic thingy on top of the engine and into the throttle body via one hose. Throttle still creates a vacuum to draw in crankcase gases. No engine, in the USA market, allows crankcase gases to vent to the atmosphere.

The other side of emissions controls are with the EFI system and using the catalytic converter to clean up exhaust, reducing pollution.

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Old 02-17-2020, 10:35 AM   #31
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

I cut a piece of Viton Rubber (very heavy tough, but flexible stuff) to fit inside the port to act like a Reed Valve. I sanded the Viton edges smooth with 400 grit sand paper. I used a washer just large enough to add a bit of resistance to the rubber when it flaps open to help force it closed. I drilled and tapped the "cover" to reattach via small screw and APV. I've done all I can do to rebuild this Oil Separator PCV Valve. I'm installing it as soon as the garage warms up a bit. Only time and use will tell if I did a good job or not.
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:07 PM   #32
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

I'm not certain all L300s use the same pcv system and I was under the impression that little box was just a way to channel combustion gases into the upper exterior plumbing to recirculate blowby gases back to the intake system, without using the reed valve.

Perhaps you can explain how crankcase gases are fed into the oil separator, allowing the oil mist to condense onto the chambers, drain back to the engine while allowing combustion gases to move forward to the upper exterior pcv parts before being fed into the intake system.

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Old 02-22-2020, 09:37 AM   #33
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

I would share my insanity. I have had massive problem with oil leaks with our 2000 Saturn L300. Oil was flowing from the valve covers and other places, making it impossible to drive with the smell of burning oil. The engine ran great until I fixed it! I torn it down to replace the valve cover gaskets. I discovered the Reed valve inside the Oil Separator PCV Valve was toast. I did as much research as I could and found others that had rebuilt their Oil Separator PCV Valve. I ordered expense Viton Rubber to install as the REED valve. I thought it looked pretty good, perhaps not.

Had to wait on parts, got really sick for a week after I took it apart... then as I was reassembling, I saw the kiss of death! The front valve cover gasket was hanging out the front like a broken curtain! How could I have missed that? I totally freaked out and panicked. I removed everything to re-seat the front valve cover gasket. Removing the motor lift mounts are a *****!

So I got everything clean and the gasket wasn't damaged and I installed the front valve cover. I was using the torque wrench to snug them down and bam, I broke off a bolt. I managed to get the broken off bolt out of the engine block and got a replacement. I did not lose the broken bolt head.

I looked at everything and made sure all everything was connected and properly torqued etc... I must have known something because I was scared to start it. I finally got my courage up and went out to start the engine. It would not start.
I again looked at everything, charged the battery over night. Went back out there an hour ago, it started, but there were some awful noises. As to what actually happened, I can't tell you, but I blew this engine up totally! Oil was blowing out from the front of the crank area. It would run at an idle, but the every once in a while a crunch noise would occur. If I ran at 3K it ran perfectly, no noise.

I don't know if I dropped a socket in the engine intake, screwed up the injectors and they blew lean, broke a valve or possibly my fix to the PCV module destroyed the engine. I don't know, but I am done working on this vehicle. The money pit is no more!

It just makes me sick that I screwed up so badly and I let my wife down.

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Old 03-27-2020, 04:14 PM   #34
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

Update: I have dug in to perform an autopsy on the Saturn. I removed the upper intakes, the Q-paks, the intake with the injectors and the PCV module.

I found no problems in the upper intakes or Q-Paks.

The injector intake did have a tiny amount of gasket split and rounded outside the grove. I don't think it was causing a leak, but perhaps. I also searched looking down in the intakes to view the valves and saw no socket or anything that would make a crunching noise. I fixed the gasket and used some ATV on the area where the gasket was misaligned.

PCV module: I removed the viton rubber and sanded it to make it thinner. I also removed the washer which kept the viton from moving easily. I believe the rubber was too thick and it may have been sticking as I thought I heard a popping noise when the engine was running. I replaced the heavy washer with a thin piece of aluminum from a 3 1/2 floppy disk aluminum shield. When done, the viton rubber could easily move. Note: The ATV was found to be unbelievable strong! It took me hours to break the ATV seal to remove the lid on the PCV module. I don't know if a screw to mount the lid is really needed. It does hold the lid in place as the ATV cures.

Next steps: I would like to perform a compression test. How do I do this without harming the Q-Paks? Simply leave the injectors and the Q-Paks disconnected?

And, I want to look inside the engine with a bore scope (which I don't have currently)

So I might have to take a break and drink more Quarantinis!

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Old 03-29-2020, 06:16 PM   #35
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

Yes you can do a compression test with the coils and injectors disconnected. Be sure to pull the fuel pump relay or you will have gas everywhere.

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Old 03-29-2020, 06:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

We had some unwanted guesses last night in the form of thunderstorms. I nearly freaked out with the Saturn in our 1 car garage and the new Yaris outside in the hail! I might not have nerves enough to do the compression tests. I might just pop it back together and see if the PCV modifications I made helped anything. I simply need the garage for the new car and the Saturn can deal with the weather just fine after 20 years!

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Old 03-29-2020, 09:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: 3.0 L PCV Valve Help?

Yea you guys can get some big hail, Save your new car.

...
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