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Old 09-30-2009, 01:16 PM   #1
linx3566
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2007 VUE Green Line
Default tire question

Hi Guys,

I currently have installed 205x65R15 tires and would like to install 205x70R15 tires. Local tire shop I tried said they would not install since it is wrong size tire and would cause damage to brakes and transmission. Is this true or BS?

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Old 09-30-2009, 10:18 PM   #2
born again
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2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
2000 L-Series 2.2L Wagon
Default Re: tire question

I think this sounds like BS. Your 205-65-15 tires have an outside diameter of about 25.5" and the 205-70-15 tires are 26.3". The effect will be to increase the torque required to accelerate and decelerate the car by 4%. This will slightly decrease the performance, although braking will not likely be much affected because there is normally a surplus available. There will be some inaccuracy in the speedometer and odometer as these will both read low (also 4%).

However, the question I have is why do this? There are plenty of tires available in the proper size, so why go with one that will decrease performance? Fuel economy? For that you would be better to go narrower to a 195-70-15 and pick for low rolling resistance. This size will be the same diameter.

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Old 09-30-2009, 10:32 PM   #3
linx3566
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Default Re: tire question

Quote:
Originally Posted by born again View Post
I think this sounds like BS. Your 205-65-15 tires have an outside diameter of about 25.5" and the 205-70-15 tires are 26.3". The effect will be to increase the torque required to accelerate and decelerate the car by 4%. This will slightly decrease the performance, although braking will not likely be much affected because there is normally a surplus available. There will be some inaccuracy in the speedometer and odometer as these will both read low (also 4%).

However, the question I have is why do this? There are plenty of tires available in the proper size, so why go with one that will decrease performance? Fuel economy? For that you would be better to go narrower to a 195-70-15 and pick for low rolling resistance. This size will be the same diameter.
you are correct and I was just thinking about installing these 205x70R15 since I have them parked in my garage. but got new tires 205x65R15 but my vibration is still there. I just purchased the car used from a used car dealer here in Toronto. She looks great with leather seats and all but starting to think I may have made a mistake and it turns out to be a money pit. I went with the Saturn since I also have a 05 Vue and that drives like a dream. The vibration issue is driving me nuts.

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Old 10-01-2009, 10:28 AM   #4
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Default Re: tire question

That's only .4" difference from axle to road, PURE BS. You can get 1" variation in normal +1 or +2 on tires and wheels so ask the shop if they never, ever do + tires and wheels for any customer.

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Old 10-03-2009, 08:52 PM   #5
born again
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Default Re: tire question

There is a marathon thread on vibration on the general L-Series Firm going on. It appears you have a common problem. I too experienced cupping and feathering on the L before changing to much better tires (= not cheap). I fitted Bridgestone G-009 to all four wheels. These have a stiff sidewall and seem to put up with the rather extreme alignment specs of the rear suspension. I do not rotate my tires/wheels and do not use winter tires. The front tires will wear more quickly than the rears and require replacement first. The rears are then rotated to the front and the new tires installed at the back. They stay there until the fronts wear out again. You always want your better tires at the rear or you are at risk of having the car spin out in low traction conditions. I get about 130,000 km out of a pair of tires (this includes several track days, that scrub off a lot of rubber). The latest set on the rear are Bridgestone G-019 Grid, the model that replaces the discontinued G-009. These tires are noisy, but the L has sufficient engine noise that this is not an issue. This car will eat cheap tires and spit them out. Some who have tried this tire have not had the same results.

Regarding vibration, there are many things that can contribute to this. If it increases in intensity with speed, it is clearly an imbalance or out shops. On modern FWD cars the tires should be balanced to 1/4 oz. The second factor is roundness. A perfectly balanced wheel-tire assembly that doesn't run true will shake the car. A good shop will check this for any vibration complaint if balancing doesn't fix it. The cause can be a bent wheel or bad tire. Bad tires are common, even when new. Old tires can develop out-of-round from say hitting a pothole, etc. Sometimes the belt will shift in the tire, or it will develop a bulge. These defects should be obvious when the wheel is rotated with the car jacked up.

The next thing is wheel installation. This is also commonly badly done. If you are not dismounting your wheels yourself then you won't know about this. It once took me a 4' long pipe on my flex handle to remove the wheel bolts after one particularly ham-fisted, air wrench happy mechanic finished with it. Wheels bolts need to be tightened in stages with a torque wrench in a star pattern. Very few shops will bother to do this. There is also an issue of properly cleaning the face of the flange and the wheel.

Some other things that can contribute to vibration are worn shock absorbers or suspension bushings. All of mine are original at 273,000km. This would be more indicative of a vibration that is centered at one speed.

Oh, and some vibration when hitting the freeway with cold tires is normal. This should go away an a few minutes, as the parking flat spots work their way out.

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Old 10-03-2009, 10:04 PM   #6
cavalier
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Default Re: tire question

lies, lies lies..........

I've been running 205/70/15 rubber on my 2000 LS1 for the past seven years now and never had a single suspension problem to speak of that could be tied to swapping out the tire size. (Turned 192,000 miles this morning)

In fact, I made the switch to that size after a tire shop that's been in biz for 40 years (I've been going there for 23 now) recommended it.

BTW, want a great tire for the LS series that's really affordable to boot?

Toyo Extensa A/S

These things so far wear like they're made of steel and offer a really quite ride with great grip.

Upgrading my tires to that profile gave my car better handling to boot, so I say go for it.

Last edited by cavalier; 10-03-2009 at 10:17 PM..

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Old 10-04-2009, 01:20 AM   #7
linx3566
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Default Re: tire question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalier View Post
lies, lies lies..........

I've been running 205/70/15 rubber on my 2000 LS1 for the past seven years now and never had a single suspension problem to speak of that could be tied to swapping out the tire size. (Turned 192,000 miles this morning)

In fact, I made the switch to that size after a tire shop that's been in biz for 40 years (I've been going there for 23 now) recommended it.

BTW, want a great tire for the LS series that's really affordable to boot?

Toyo Extensa A/S

These things so far wear like they're made of steel and offer a really quite ride with great grip.

Upgrading my tires to that profile gave my car better handling to boot, so I say go for it.

Thanks for the advice and reassurance. I believe I will install the bigger tires and look at the Toyo. Thanks again

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Old 10-04-2009, 01:23 AM   #8
linx3566
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Happy Re: tire question

Quote:
Originally Posted by born again View Post
There is a marathon thread on vibration on the general L-Series Firm going on. It appears you have a common problem. I too experienced cupping and feathering on the L before changing to much better tires (= not cheap). I fitted Bridgestone G-009 to all four wheels. These have a stiff sidewall and seem to put up with the rather extreme alignment specs of the rear suspension. I do not rotate my tires/wheels and do not use winter tires. The front tires will wear more quickly than the rears and require replacement first. The rears are then rotated to the front and the new tires installed at the back. They stay there until the fronts wear out again. You always want your better tires at the rear or you are at risk of having the car spin out in low traction conditions. I get about 130,000 km out of a pair of tires (this includes several track days, that scrub off a lot of rubber). The latest set on the rear are Bridgestone G-019 Grid, the model that replaces the discontinued G-009. These tires are noisy, but the L has sufficient engine noise that this is not an issue. This car will eat cheap tires and spit them out. Some who have tried this tire have not had the same results.

Regarding vibration, there are many things that can contribute to this. If it increases in intensity with speed, it is clearly an imbalance or out shops. On modern FWD cars the tires should be balanced to 1/4 oz. The second factor is roundness. A perfectly balanced wheel-tire assembly that doesn't run true will shake the car. A good shop will check this for any vibration complaint if balancing doesn't fix it. The cause can be a bent wheel or bad tire. Bad tires are common, even when new. Old tires can develop out-of-round from say hitting a pothole, etc. Sometimes the belt will shift in the tire, or it will develop a bulge. These defects should be obvious when the wheel is rotated with the car jacked up.

The next thing is wheel installation. This is also commonly badly done. If you are not dismounting your wheels yourself then you won't know about this. It once took me a 4' long pipe on my flex handle to remove the wheel bolts after one particularly ham-fisted, air wrench happy mechanic finished with it. Wheels bolts need to be tightened in stages with a torque wrench in a star pattern. Very few shops will bother to do this. There is also an issue of properly cleaning the face of the flange and the wheel.

Some other things that can contribute to vibration are worn shock absorbers or suspension bushings. All of mine are original at 273,000km. This would be more indicative of a vibration that is centered at one speed.

Oh, and some vibration when hitting the freeway with cold tires is normal. This should go away an a few minutes, as the parking flat spots work their way out.
Thanks for this lengthy explanation on vibration. My vibration is very slight to livable but I also believe that some worn suspension parts are the culprit. In the coming months I will systematical replace these suspect worn parts starting with the stabilizer links.

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Old 10-04-2009, 09:56 AM   #9
G.M.
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1998 SL2
Default Re: tire question

there's also some work needed in the rear end to correct your alignment and prevent these tires from getting eaten.

Saturn has a camber correction shim kit that goes betweeen the rear subframe and the chassis. install that as well as the lower control arm bolts. You'll want to have the LCA's slotted in that bolt location for camber adjustment. (takes about 1/4" - 3/8" material cut out for an elongated slot)
use these specs for the rear alignment....
camber 0* to -.2*
toe 0*
that'll ensure no chopping. and protect your tire investment.
this is also the flat tow spec. some of you may have recognized it.

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